If you check out my last post, you will notice that there are 21 comments. Most (okay all of them) have a pro-gay marriage stance. These commenters aren't strangers to ignoring facts. They are trying to make excuses for gay marriage. Excuses include "YOU CANT USE RELIGION" and "NO MORE TRADITION". Well, you know some things just never change. And the base man-woman marriage is one of them.
African Americans were pushing for rights as early as the 18th century and the same can be said for women. They got their rights! Gay rights are something new; the movement is less than 50 years old! Gay rights can be equated with abortion. If it wasn't for stupid state and national legislature, both of these would be non-existent.
People need to get the libertarian idea of letting anything go out of their head. Just as laissez faire causes problems on an economic level, progressivism causes problems on a social level.
Wednesday, October 17, 2007
Radical Republican Press Release #2
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Glen Maganzini,
politics,
school news
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First of all, do not accuse me of ignoring facts.
ReplyDelete1) Gay marriage =/= abortion. At all. Nor does it equal murder, like you said before.
2) Gays haven't been "fighting" for their rights long enough? Are you blind? We all know that oppressing someone because of an uncontrollable factor (race, age, gender, sexual orientation, etc) is wrong. Why make the same mistakes as before by oppressing an innocent group of people, when we can just let them be equal in every way to any other citizen and skip the violence and hatred?
3) I think you are implying that you are opposed to laissez-faire. Last time I checked, Glen, you were a REPUBLICAN. Please, recheck your facts, or affiliate yourself with a different party.
And again, I just want to ask you: how does the marriage of two gays affect you negatively in any way? Since gay marriage was legalized three years ago in MA, nothing terrible has happened to you (except maybe that your concepts of social equality are backwards, but that preceded 2004). The world didn't end, Armageddon didn't happen; a few people were made a little bit happier, that's it. What's so bad about that?
1) Both gay marriage and abortion are seriously evil and flawed.
ReplyDelete2) Kids are oppressed all the time. We have to wait until we are 16, 18 and 21 to have certain liberties. That is uncontrollable, but it doesn't seem wrong. I am not saying that you must change your sexual orientation, but don't get married. What if we all of a sudden ceased to implement a drinking age. More kids would drink. It is just natural for a group of people to start doing the opposite of what is right in that case. I think you are confusing hatred and opposition. I never stated that I hate gays in any way. People have different opinions. I have already stated that I don't believe in violence towards any group of people.
3) Since when must all Republicans or conservatives for this matter believe in laissez-faire? I don't agree with some of the platforms of the Republican Party. You can better classify me as a radical centrist, or a right wing populist. Radical Republicanism is just a one issue party like I said before, so it is unreasonable to say that because we have Republican in our name means that we are one.
Gay marriage might not directly effect me and teenage drinking does not either. However, when looking at certain things you have to look at people everywhere, especially children. Is gay marriage an image that we want our children to accept? Talk about brainwashing.
the only one trying to brainwash here is you.
ReplyDeleteThere is an argument known as "Ad Baculum" and what this argument says is the following:
ReplyDelete"You must agree that gay marriage is acceptable or else you are a discriminatory bigot"
Rather than using legitimate logic, you appeal to the emotions of gay rights supporters.
1)"African Americans were pushing for rights as early as the 18th century and the same can be said for women. They got their rights! Gay rights are something new..." With that statement you just made, you agreed to the fact that movements have had an effect on our history and social lives. Just because the movements weren't accepted when they were first brought to light, it didn't stop those involved from gaining the rights that they deserved. Gay marriage will eventually be accepted! It may not happen in the next few years, but it will happen, and undoubtedly will be opposed. Just like when African Americans gained rights after the Civil War. But guess what? People got over it, and it became the norm.
ReplyDelete2) You state that it is progressiveness that causes issue on a social level. If it weren't for social progression, we'd still be under the rule of England. There would still be slavery. And most likely, all of us children would be working in some sort of factory, or out on some field to make enough money for our family to eat something.
3) You claim that those who have a pro-gay marriage stance "aren't strangers to ignoring facts." If we ignore facts, then what do you ignore, life? The Bible can not be used as a reasonable arguement because it is meant for individual interpretation. However, homosexuality has been found throughout the animal kingdom. Scientists have documented animals involved in sexual activities with a partner of the same sex. Have you noticed the number of books that can be found on the Bible, each stating the author's interpretation?
4) Yes, I agree that children are oppressed by the government. And I don't agree with that either. But until we've been exposed to multiple choices and have been given an education, we have no idea what we're doing. Homosexuality is not a choice. You are gay, or your bi, or your trans, or your not. It's part of you that can not be changed. Do you honestly believe that someone went along their life until one day they said, "Hmm, I think I'll be homosexual today."?
I know that I'm not going to change your mind. And I know that your not going to compromise your stance by accepting points made here, even ones that may be more valid than yours. But please, tone it down? I recognize your right to your opinions, and I recognize your right to voice said opinions, but there is no reason that you should be cruel and demeaning as this. The Declaration of Independence, the basis of our country, and the democracy that runs our country, states, "...all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." Why shouldn't homosexuals, or bisexuals, or those who are transgendered recieve those rights as well?
At the moment there is far too great of a population inflation. Gays contribute no extra children to population. Gay couples thus must take in children from orphanages. This causes less starving children, more for those in orphanages, and less taxes for us all? And I think most kids prefer to be with a gay couple than in an orphanage.
ReplyDeleteBeing gay is not a choice. It is as much a choice as being attracted to those of the opposite gender, essentially. If you want me to find proof of this, I will later.
Religious statements are null here, we all know this. Pretty much negating the words such as "evil" too. And opinions such as "disgusting" "gross" and "wrong" are baseless opinions that also shouldn't be used.
And why does age of issue make an issue more or less valuable? And also, underage drinking kills... That's a negative net effect upon the population. With it causing deaths. And population growth at times...
Okay, where to start....
ReplyDelete1) Yeah... no. Okay. Just, no. Calling gay marriage flat-out "evil" just shows that you have no logic to back it up. It is your opinion, not a fact.
2) Yes, you can argue that kids are "oppressed" (even though the dictionary definition of oppressed is "To keep down by severe and unjust use of force or authority," and I would hardly say that applies to children in America), but that is entirely different. The reason the age restrictions don't seem wrong is because they're all you've ever known. The voting age used to be 21. The drinking age used to be 18. You weren't alive to see a change like that happen, so of course 18 and 21 respectively seem like the "right" ages. I think you are afraid of change. Age restrictions are based on maturity levels and brain development. Yes, everyone matures differently, but age guidelines can't be tailor-made for every member of society. Of course it would be wrong for a toddler to be able to drink or a 5th grader to be able to vote. It is not wrong for a couple, any couple, to marry.
And about drinking: what is the 18th Amendment to the Constitution? The Prohibition Amendment. We've tried making drinking illegal, to restrict it from "harming" the citizens. In actuality, drinking and crime increased. People always want what they can't have more than things they are allowed to have. If the drinking age is lowered, it will become normal after a while. Many countries are allowed to drink, vote, drive, etc at different ages, and some of them even have better standards of living than the US.
"It is just natural for a group of people to start doing the opposite of what is right in that case."
So, you're saying that if gay marriage is legal, more people will sign up to be married to someone of the same gender? That's not how it works, Glen. When women gained the right to vote, men didn't want to turn into women so that they could vote too. Why? Because they already had that right. Gays being allowed to marry will not make heterosexual people inclined to miraculously change their sexuality somehow.
3) So sue me for not realizing that you don't affiliate with the Republican Party. The name is a little misleading. P.S. you can't have a political party based on a single platform. Yes, you are allowed to disagree with some of the ideas of your party, but a political party based on one issue? Politics doesn't work that way.
If I have children, they had better accept gay marriage. They had better accept all people, regardless of race, religion, sexual orientation, gender, age, political views, appearance, and anything else that differs between members of the human race. I would be ashamed to call them my children if they discriminate. Brainwashing is evident in that you base all of your beliefs on a piece of literature that may or may not be fictional. It is impossible to prove that it is true. Don't try.
Ad Baculum doesn't actually mean what you think. If I were threatening to bodily harm you if you disagree with my views, that would be ad baculum. I have not threatened to harm anyone. Ad baculum would be me saying, "Gay marriage is right and if you don't believe that, I will hurt you."
If gay marriage doesn't negatively affect you personally, I don't see how you can object to it. I really don't see the rationalization. I understand that it goes against your beliefs, but sometimes people have to compromise their beliefs for the good of others.
I'm not trying to change your mind, because I know that'll never happen. I'm also not trying to attack your religion, because I believe that anyone can worship who or what they want (if you are a Flying Spaghetti Monster supporter, fine with me!). But, what I am trying to do is make you see the other side of the argument. I'm backing up my side of the story and make you see where the supporters are coming from. I know, it's hard to be the only one on your side of the argument, but really, just open your eyes. Equality for all is a good thing. There is nothing wrong with people having equal rights and opportunities.
That aside, your argument is not only a sieve, Glen. It is an industrial-sized colander. It holds no weight.
Also, thank you Mike Salvato. You are awesome. And so are you, Sara. And Austin.
mike salvato, nicely stated
ReplyDelete"Glen Manganzini. You my friend, are a fucking idiot. "Both gay marriage and abortion are seriously evil and flawed. "
ReplyDeleteEvil? are you serious? What is it to you that two people whether be two men or two females get married. Does it effect your life? no. Go fuck yourself. People like you are counterproductive and make the changing world stay still. Your probably going to delete this post because you have too much of an ego to face this truth."
Whoever you are - I hope you realize that resorting to vulgarities make you look stupid. Well, Mr. Tough Guy (or Girl), I frankly do not give a crap if it effects my life or not. I have already stated this a plethora of times. I am not making the changing world stay, but rather the culture. What right do people have to change our culture? I am not going to delete this post because I want to make an example of your flagrant viciousness and irrelevance.
African Americans were pushing for rights as early as the 18th century and the same can be said for women. They got their rights! Gay rights are something new; the movement is less than 50 years old!
ReplyDeleteUh, Glen? Enlighten me on the relevance of these statements? Are you saying that one needs to endure a certain period of oppression
before being liberated? Right...
Gay rights can be equated with abortion
Again, englighten me, Glen. I don't see the connection. Sure, it's safe to assume that people who lean one way on the issue of gay marriage will also lean in that direction on abortion...but how does that make them equal? I guess, if you really zoom out for a second and equate the general political ideology, then yes, they're equal, but I don't think that was your point.
has anyone found it perculiar how Glen is avidly against gay marriage and abortion, relating both to murder, but is extremely in favor of the death penalty? appearantly once you have commited a crime your being killed is no longer considered murder. just something to think about.
ReplyDeleteI really have nothing else to add to this discussion on gay marriage. I've stated my sentiments various times through comments on this blog, and everyone (except glen) has done an excellent job of making a solid point. Nice work guys! you are all heroes of mine. (again, except glen.)
Glen, you say that we commenters aren't strangers to ignoring facts. Well I personally think that is quite an inference for you to make, seeing as you have yet to present a single shred of solid, factual evidence (no, glen, this does not include your personal opinion or the opinion of the bible) against gay marriage.
ReplyDeleteBy saying that gays should be subjected to following a different set of laws than the rest of us, (a set which prevents them from marrying) you are implying that they are different from us. This whole "seperate but equal" idea doesn't fly here in America because, guess what, it's inherently unequal!! were you sleeping in history, or did you just chose to ignore the whole civil rights section?
Funny. Anonymous excuses me of being a staunch supporter of the death penalty. Anonymous, I regret to inform you, but you are 100% wrong. I am fully against the death penalty and fully in favor of preserving life.
ReplyDeleteits prateek
ReplyDeleteyay
anyway
I'm still against gay marriage.
ballin'
"Yeah... no. Okay. Just, no. Calling gay marriage flat-out "evil" just shows that you have no logic to back it up. It is your opinion, not a fact."
ReplyDeleteIs marriage not the basic unit of a family? Redefining marriage is abusing the institution of marriage. So yes, evil.
In the end, you can't compare the struggle to attain gay marriage rights to black rights or women's rights. Marriage is an unchanging element of our society that is only beneficial towards the man and the woman.
"Is marriage not the basic unit of a family? Redefining marriage is abusing the institution of marriage. So yes, evil."
ReplyDeleteWay back in the day, marriages used to always be arranged. How weird is that? That has changed. The institution of marriage has been redefined many times. Also, marriage now is hardly a sacred religious institution. You don't need a priest or a church to get married in, you just need a license. Is that evil? If it is, I hope that if you get married, you don't take advantage of any of the social benefits provided to you and your wife by the government, because you would be supporting an "evil."
"In the end, you can't compare the struggle to attain gay marriage rights to black rights or women's rights. Marriage is an unchanging element of our society that is only beneficial towards the man and the woman."
I can compare whatever I want to gay marriage, as long as I back it up, which I have. The struggle for gay rights is no different than the struggle for any other rights. It is a group of people being unfairly treated by something beyond their control. Unfortunately, most of the population is afraid of change, and that is why oppression and prejudice is still around.
Also, everyone is made by God, yes? God makes no mistakes? Then why would God make gays? Or if God were so against gays, why would he give people free will to choose to be gay? I'm sure God can do whatever he wants, so if he didn't want gays to be around (because that's what he told the prophets to write in the Bible), he wouldn't have made it an option in the first place. And if homosexuality is such a terrible evil, why is it found in almost every animal species on the planet, naturally? Think about it, Glen.
"Is marriage not the basic unit of a family? Redefining marriage is abusing the institution of marriage. So yes, evil."
ReplyDeletewell Glen, while i obviously have objections to this as a gay marriage supporter, i have even more of a problem with it because i happen to be the child of a divorced couple. Are you trying to tell me that my family is evil, or in any way less loving or significant than yours?
Glen, seriously, you can't call these things evil. People can have their beliefs and it doesn't mean they are right or wrong. As I said before, I am anti-gay marriage, but still, back your stuff up with logic and facts. You cannot call something evil just because you don't think it is religious. I heard about this blog today at a pasta party, and I really thought that you were not as aggressive with the topic as it seems you are.
ReplyDeleteAs a note to both sides. Just because you are anti or pro gay marriage or whatever does not make you a bad person or less of a respectable person than you were before. However, you cannot bash what other people say without reason, and if you do, do it in a respectable way that includes logical reasoning, not just religious methods of saying something is immoral. Republican or Democrat, it does not matter, I am more to the right that most, but I am open minded enough to see the other side of the argument, and although I still oppose it, I still see what the logic is behind their reasoning.
I really didn't think that this whole Radical Republican thing was as serious as it is made out to be. I mean, I like it just because it voices the opinions of the few right sided people in the school (I am more right as I said), but that still does not allow for bashing just for the sake of bashing.
I'll be back to see more comments.
so glen, in you point of view our parent should be working 16hour a day weeks for 1.50 a day we be in a factory instead of school and our younger siblings should be fixing cogs in machines. workers should still be considered property of their companies. African Americans should still be working in fields and immigrants should be taking iq test as they enter the country. women shouldn't work/vote Asians shouldn't be allowed to enter the country and any here should be denounced citizenship and Roosevelt was a bad president. please Glen stop me if all of this stuff has somehow messed up society progressivism is just social advancement, but it is a conservative idea to be against progressivism but not laissez fair it seems like you should read a book rather then acting like a 40 year old man afraid of change.
ReplyDelete